BlackChampagne Home

In association with Amazon.comBuy Crap! I get 5%.
Direct donations to cover hosting expenses are also accepted.

Site Information
--What is Black Champagne?
--Cast of Characters & Things
--Your First Time.
--Design Notes
--Quote of the Day Archive
--Phrase of the Moment Archive
--Site Feedback
--Contact/Copyright Info

Blog Archives
--Blogger Archives: June 2005-
--Old Monthly Archives: Jan 2002-May 2005

Reviews Section
Movie Reviews (153)

Ten Most Recent Film Reviews:
--Infernal Affairs -- 5.5
--The Protector/Tom Yum Goong -- 6
--The Limey -- 8
--The Descent -- 6
--Oldboy -- 9.5
--Shaolin Deadly Kicks -- 7
--Mission Impossible III -- 7.5
--V for Vendetta -- 8.5
--Ghost in the Shell 2 -- 8
--Night Watch -- 7.5

Book Reviews (76)
Five Most Recent Book Reviews:
--Cat People -- 4
--Attack Poodles -- 5
--Caught Stealing -- 6
--The Dirt, by Motley Crue -- 7.5
--Harry Potter #6 -- 7

Photos Section
--Flux Photos
--Pet Photos (7 pages)
--Home Decor Photos
--Plant Photos
--Vacation Photos (12 pages)

Articles
See all 234 articles here.

Fiction
Original horror and fantasy short stories.

Mail Bags
Index Page

Features
--Links
--Slang: Internet
--Slang: Dirty
--Slang: Wankisms
--Slang: Sex Acts
--Slang: Fulldeckisms
--Hot or Not?
--Truths in Advertising

Band Name Ratings
(350 Rock Bands Listed)
FAQ -- Feedback
A -- B -- C -- D -- E -- F -- G -- H -- I -- J -- K -- L -- M -- N -- O -- P -- Q -- R -- S -- T -- U -- V -- W -- X -- Y -- Z

Hellgate: London
--The Unofficial HGL Site
--The Hellgate Wiki

Diablo II
--The Unofficial Site
--Flux's Decahedron
--Middle Earth Mod

Locations of visitors to this page

Powered by Blogger.

BlackChampagne -- no longer new; improvement also in question.: Kali Staff Seminar



Wednesday, August 31, 2005  

Kali Staff Seminar


Since I seem to be in a blogging mood, and not in a fiction mood, and since I'm trying not to surf or play any games while Malaya is toiling away on a work project at her desk to my immediate right, I might as well talk about the weekend staff seminar while the metaphorical iron is hot. Hey, (one of) you asked for it.

Staff in Kali (As always, when I say "Kali" I mean the particular type of the martial art modified and invented by the Master of our school, so there may not be many/any similarities to other forms of Kali around the world.) is quite different from staff in most other martial arts. We use long staves, 6-7 feet (+/-2 meters), ideally of bamboo, since they're not much thicker than broomsticks, but are strong and durable. (A dowel or curtain rod or the like you get from a hardware store will break or shatter if you hit it hard.)

In form, our staff is actually pretty similar to spear, with a lot of stabbing and poking, and very, very fine control required to do it properly. Needless to say, no one at the seminar other than our Tuhan and Gura was good enough with a staff to use it in full speed sparring. The rest of us did some sparring, of course, but only in controlled fashion, after we'd worked on basic forms and techniques and such for a couple of hours. It was a blast too, with the person attacking taking big long swings, and the other person countering that with a sweep, then landing a few hits of their own, as the first person stepped through, then turned and launched another attack.

In our practice we were doing all large swings, but you'd hardly do any of those in a fight, since they're just too slow and too big. No matter how hard you swing, if the arc of your swing is as wide as if you were swinging a dead cat overhead by the tail, any competent opponent is simply going to duck it, step back from it, or more likely step in, block it, and nail you in the face. Their weapon will be inside yours, after all, and likely pointing pretty much straight at you. A fight between two experts with staff would therefore be much like a fencing match, with lots of stabs, thrusts, and parries. You can block such stabs of course, but it's very, very hard to do so without super reflexes and long reach. You can't move your body to the side as quickly as someone can stab a staff at you, nor can you tell exactly where their stab is aiming quickly enough to dodge appropriately. You can swing a stick to block it, but your reach with the stick isn't anywhere near as long as the staff's.

Staff vs. staff blocking is easier possible since you can reach your staff out four or five feet, and if you just slightly redirect their stick at that distance, it will move a foot or more to the side by the time it reaches your body, and miss you. And then you can thrust in your return strike while they're defenseless. Reachingg out is the key to blocking most types of jabbing or thrusting attacks, by the way. Starting to redirect them as far from your body as you can. It's why we often leave one hand out after punching, since that hand can then quite easily redirect the opponent's return punch by pushing their arm in one direction or the other. Trying to catch a punch in front of your face is very hard; steering it away by pushing into their forearm is less hard.

As for the most basic staff stuff, it's very much a two-handed weapon. Obviously, I mean you can't control a two meter stick with one hand, (Gandalf's fight double in LotR:RotK aside.) but it's all about the physics of the thing. By pulling the back of the stick in towards your side while pushing the front out with your other hand, you're basically doubling the speed of your attack, since both hands are moving at once. The fulcrum is then the mid-point of the stick between your hands, rather than being at your back hand, if you only moved it by thrusting with the front hand. You've therefore shortened the stick, in effect, since you're only moving the first 3 feet of it, rather than the 4 or 5 feet you would be moving if you'd simply swung with your front hand.

Stabs are two handed also, with the rear hand thrusting and the front hand going to a looser grip and controlling the aim. It's basically like shooting a pool cue, and you let your front hand slide when you swing as well; starting off with a very wide grip, and turning your hips as you swing while sliding your front hand up the staff a foot or two. It can be hard to control the aim like that, but when you do it correctly you can feel how much more speed you've got, and the whistle of the stick through the air is damn satisfying. Currently I find that much easier to do right handed (with the right hand in front) than left handed, but it's just a matter of practice.

And yes, we swing from both sides constantly, switching our grip (in terms of which hand is in front) appropriately. We do a lot of thrusting backhand too, with the same form. With an expert you really can't tell which end of the stick is the front or back, since they're completely ambidexterous and can swing from either side, and with either end at any moment. (That sounded strangely sexual, didn't it?)

The staff is the king of the weapons (well, perhaps the spear is more so, but we're far from the control required to use that) and it just owns sticks, swords, or double sticks in combat. You might survive with a sword if you were very good and the staff guy wasn't, and if you could chop through the staff you'd likely have the fight won, but with other weapons you're just screwed. The staff has too much of a reach advantage, and it's extremely difficult to dodge a fast stab, and since the staff guy can keep poking at you forever, while never giving you an opening to get in on a missed stab (he can back up while pulling the staff back for another stab just as quickly as you can try to advance after dodging one), good luck. Imagine missing a stab to the right of your target. You simply need to pull your arms back and turn to the left a bit for a second stab, and you can do that a lot faster than they can smack your first stab aside and leap forwards within reach of you with their much shorter weapon.

I've gotten good enough with double stick to control a single weapon; I can just hit them in the hand or parry the weapon as soon as they try to swing it from either side, but I was almost helpless against even the mercifully slow thrusts Malaya was using when we tried some staff stuff Sunday evening. Stabs are the hardest things to counter when I'm doing double stick against single stick or broadsword, since the point of the weapon comes out before the hand is within reach, but with those the weapon is slow enough that I can usually slap it aside or down, and then press my advantage from arm's reach. The staff stabs so much faster than a single stick, and has so much more range that it's just terrifying. You just can't reach their hand, much less their body, if they have any idea what they're doing with the weapon.

Double stick, or sword, is very cool against the staff though, since you can win if they play nice and throw wide swings, rather than stabs. The block is very cool too; you form an X from your weapons, catch the staff in them, and force it to the ground to your right or left. You'll then have one stick above and one stick below their staff, and you hold it down with the top one while pulling the bottom one free and swinging it at them. You've got to be quick, of course, and that'll never work against a good staff wielder, (who wouldn't have given you the big wide swing to block in the first place) but it's fun for sparring.

Also great fun was the staff vs. staff sparring we were doing, since once you block the first hit you've got just a world of possibilities. You can swing your stick back and smack them, you can block and stab, you can step in and stab with the butt of your staff, you can sweep their legs with the butt end, you can swing the butt into their head or body, and so on. It's possible to land 3 or 4 hits in like 1 second, since you strike with one end, switch to the other, hit them right and then left with it, stab again, etc.

Hitting twice with the same end quickly was hard, and the staff felt very heavy to try and circle, stop, then swing again. Tuhan could of course do it easily, and he could move the staff faster than you could see and hit you in both shoulders in a blink. It's just physics; you move your hand an inch and the tip of the staff five feet away moves that much further. You move both hands two inches, or just turn your rear hand like you're using a screwdriver, and the tip of the stick moves a foot or more. Plenty to draw back and strike again, and all you did was basically flick your wrist. Doing that with control and speed and power is of course quite another thing, but that's why he's the master, and we're not.

Try it yourself with a broomstick or something, if you're curious. Hold it loosely in your front hand, and just roll your back hand up and out, like you're using a screwdriver. Then hold the staff a foot or so above something you're not worried about breaking (a rock wall wouldn't be a bad idea) and smack it down. First use just your front hand to move it, then try to use both hands, pulling the back one towards your body while the front one moves away. Then try that with the back hand wrist twist thing, and you will be amazed at how hard you can hit from so close to the target. Far, far harder than you could with a normal stick. Malaya and I compared, me hitting a stick she held, and I had to do almost a full power strike with a stick, swinging from the shoulder and using a hip turn, to equal the force of a hit with the staff from about two feet away.

I doubt we'll do staff any time soon in class, mostly since there's not really room indoors for anything other than drills and form practice, but I've been playing around with mine outside every day since the workshop, and I can feel tremendous improvement in my control. I'm still not any good, but just handing the weapon regularly, swinging it from both sides, practicing stabbing at a tree leaf or a spot on the wall, etc, is a great way to gain control and finesse. And with dedication, in ten or twenty years I might approach actual competency! I'll let you know how it turns out.
Comments:

Hmm, so who do you think would win out of a fight of an expert swordsman and someone who's an expert with a staff (what's the name for that?).


Also, you said you practice outside. Where exactly? You've got a tiny little patio, but that doesn't sound very useful for staves. Local park? Is there a communial garden area at your condo?


 

Well, it would depend on the fighters 95% of the time. Tuhan could go barehanded and beat just about anyone in the school no matter what weapon they had, since he's so quick and could kill you (literally) with his bare hands in a second; he'd just take a hit to get in range and that would be that.

A sword would likely beat a staff for even fighters though, simply because the sword could cut through the staff, and one hit with a sword would end the fight, while a staff would need several good hits. It's more of a "oh damn that hurt" sort of weapon, with the quick jabs to the face, solar plexus, stomach, etc. Spear vs. sword is a more interesting fight, and there you're getting into what sort of armor are they wearing, what are the conditions and area they're in (spear likes more open space and flat terrain), etc. I'd say spear 80/20 over sword, since sword would basically have to take one crazy chance to get in close, but could win with some luck.

We have a concrete spot outside our condo that's a tight fit with two staves going at once, but is okay for stick and open hand and other stuff. Experts could staff duel in a hallway, since they'd have the control and it's mostly poking and such anyway.


 

To add slightly to that; a staff is most certainly a killing weapon; it's skull-cracking with ease, and it doesn't take much force with even a punch to kill if you hit the throat. But in a duel against an expert the staff would be used more for stabbing and thrusting and medium force hits, ones that would stop an opponent or injure them. Huge swings (that could kill or at least render unconscious with one hit) aren't practical against a skilled opponent while they're still capable of fighting back.


 

Assuming the weapons (sword or staff) did not shatter due to poor construction, I argue that the first attack is what will determine the winner. Sword could, in theory, splinter or break a staff with the first blow. But a high quality staff (such as heavy duty mahogany) could withstand a chopping blow. The swordsman would strike, find his cut deflected, and be completely open for a killing blow from the staff. Staff needs only to be strong enough to penetrate the eye, throat, or other soft bits. In the hands of a weapons master, it can do that. He has the ultimate reach advantage. (Think Lennox Lewis dismantling Mike Tyson in their early 2000's heavyweight fight.)

If, however, the sword was indeed able to cut through a staff... how much did it take off? The staff would essentially become a big stick. Here I would give the advantage to sword.

To date I've seen two spears in actual sparring-- one with a thin rattan shaft and the other constructed with a heavy wood of some sort. While I would assume the rattan shaft would shatter under sword, they're also incredibly flexible; it might be able to deflect the initial blow and pierce the swordsman.

The heavy spear, however, had an slight advantage that would work only once: it was also a balanced throwing spear. This heavy spear was, in fact, used to hunt game in the Philippines and was supposedly effective on the large heavy boars which roam the jungle. In the hands of an expert, I suspect the heavy spear could be thrown to penetrate a human chest cavity. Advantage: spear.


 

Right, so first hit wins, I figured as much.

Even not being able to do the really powerful swinging stunning hits, if you hit them hard enough to knock the wind out of them/disable them, even for just 1-2 seconds, then you could probably finish them off very easily. I guess the problem is being able to get that first hit in. Would going for their kneecaps/legs be better than aiming for chest/head/throat?

What if you give the sword bearer a shield?


 

The staff would stab for the body or the face, ideally. A strong thrust anywhere on the torso would at least stagger a person, giving you time to land more hits. Legs would work, but the odds of missing are far higher with a stab. Legs are more vulnerable for sweeps though, since you can't easily block them with a stick.

We've never used shields in class so it's hypothetical, but it would depend on the size of it. A buckler you could stab around, or go for the legs. A huge tower shield would protect the sword guy entirely, but be very heavy and slow him down and block his vision. How about one of those riot police shields from clear plexiglass, or better yet, with darkening on one side so they can see through it while you can't?

I'd imagine you could stagger or knock someone over with a good thrust to a shield, but the shield guy would hold it to deflect your blow, or let his arm bend to take the impact without knocking him off stride, and try to close on you then. Really comes down to the skill of the fighters, then.


 

Post a Comment << Home

Archives

May 2005   June 2005   July 2005   August 2005   September 2005   October 2005   November 2005   December 2005   January 2006   February 2006   March 2006   April 2006   May 2006   June 2006   July 2006   August 2006   September 2006   October 2006   November 2006   December 2006   January 2007   February 2007   March 2007   April 2007   May 2007   June 2007   July 2007   August 2007   September 2007   October 2007   November 2007   December 2007   January 2008   February 2008   March 2008   April 2008   May 2008   June 2008   July 2008   August 2008   September 2008   October 2008   November 2008   December 2008   January 2009   February 2009   March 2009   April 2009   May 2009   June 2009   July 2009   August 2009   September 2009   October 2009   November 2012  

All site content copyright "Flux" (Eric Bruce), 2002-2007.